Posts by Disillusioned JW

22

Saving "mark" on forehead: A CROSS?

by Terry in

ezekiel 9:4.

“go throughout the city of jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”

in the script used during old testament times it was either in x shape or a + shape.

Disillusioned JW

"The Lost Tomb of Jesus, A Simcha Jacobovici Film" can be watched for free at this location . Besides what I wrote previously it makes other amazing statements. For example in it an expert/authority says something which agrees with a statement of the WT that most people don't likely believe. Consider the following.

At about the 1:01:00 mark Father Jerome Murphy-O'Conner says regarding crucifixion type of crosses that early Christians (ones in the first century) were not using them . He said that for any of them to wear one around their neck "would be like someone today wearing a little electric chair. It was disgusting. It was a symbol of torture and it was only when crucifixion was stopped that the human imagination was able to move from the reality to the symbol." That first part of what he said agrees with the WT says about wearing crosses.

A scientific test was done of the patina of the ossuary which is inscribed "James son of Joseph brother of Jesus". That ossuary was sold by an antiquities dealer and thus archaeologists don't know where it came from. Experts say the " brother of Jesus" part of the inscription is possibly a forgery but not the "James son of Joseph" portion. The scientific analysis was done on the patina of the "James son of Joseph ..." ossuary and compared with a scientific analysis of the patina of the "Jesus son of Joseph" ossuary and the Mary Magdalene ossuary, those two being from the same tomb. The patina of the "James son of Joseph ..." matches the others, but random samples of patina from other ossuaries (not ones from the same tomb as the Joseph and Mary ossuaries) does not match the ones from the same tomb as the Joseph and Mary ossuaries. That means the James ossuary came from the same tomb as the ossuaries of Joseph, Jesus, Jose, and Mariamne (Mary Magdalene), and Matthew (the one from the family line of the Mary who was the mother of Jesus) came from. That is strong evidence that those 4 ossuaries are of the family of the biblical Jesus (later called the Christ) and that their tomb is tomb of the family of Jesus! Wow!

In the family tomb was also found an ossuary of the child that ossuary bore the inscription of "son of Jesus". the video mentions that in the Gospel of John refers to a beloved disciple (without mentioning his name) and that John 19:26 says Jesus asks the beloved disciple at the base of the cross to behold his mother. The verse than quotes Jesus as saying "woman behold your son". The show is saying that instead of that Mary in the verse being the mother of Jesus, it could be Mariamne (Mary Magdalene) and that Mariamne (Mary Magdalene) could be the wife Jesus ,and that the son could be son of both Mary Magdalene and Jesus! WOW!!!

As a result the scientific evidence of this video I now have much weaker belief in the Christ myth theory. I now strongly believe that the Jesus the Nazarene of the gospels was a real historical person (but I don't believe in everything that is ascribed to him) and that his family tomb and his remains have been found!

Just as Herod the Great, Pontius Pilate, and High Priest Caiaphas have been shown by archaeological discoveries to be have historical persons, I now strongly believe that John the Baptist/Baptizer, Mary Magdalene (Mariamne), Jesus the Nazarene (the son of Joseph), and James (the son of Joseph) the brother of Jesus were also historical persons! I now strongly believe they were all real! Wow! I am stunned!

22

Saving "mark" on forehead: A CROSS?

by Terry in

ezekiel 9:4.

“go throughout the city of jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”

in the script used during old testament times it was either in x shape or a + shape.

Disillusioned JW

Terry, a number of times I wondered why Paul put so much emphasis on the idea that Christ died specifically on a cross, rather than on something else. But, after watching the first hour of the "Tomb of Jesus" show I now have an idea. Maybe to the Apostle Paul the cross of Christ was the apocalyptic meaning of Tav having the meanings of:"last", "finished", "end", and "sealed up", and "brought to life" ("raised up" and "resurrected"). According to a least one of the gospels Jesus right before death on the cross said "It is Finished"! If these ideas were what Paul was thinking the cross meant, I get it now! Wow!

If such is the case then more puzzle pieces are coming together. It is of a puzzle which is a great mystery (perhaps even what can be called a sacred secret) which is now becoming revealed (as by a revelation).

Interestingly, for two years prior to ceasing to believe in Jehovah God and the Christ, I privately partook of Memorial emblems (Matzo unleavened bread and juice I freshly squeezed from unfermented red grapes ["the fruit of the vine" the gospels call it, instead of calling it wine]) in my home (with me conducting the Memorial ceremony with myself). Maybe there was more significance to those actions of mine than I realized.

All is interconnected. All is part of the One, the one universe (though some people think of the One as being God, such as in Hinduism). Thinking of that I am reminded a gospel which credits Jesus as saying his disciples are to be one (or in union), just as Jesus and the Father are one (or in union). Wow. All is one. All is interconnected.

Speaking about oneness, about a week ago I watched an episode of the TV series called "Sliders" in which one of the characters experienced her consciousness leaving her body and joining (or accessing) what she called the "universal consciousness". In a different episode a different character's consciousness was linked up with those of other human consciousnesses and they thought they were getting close to linking their minds with God.

22

Saving "mark" on forehead: A CROSS?

by Terry in

ezekiel 9:4.

“go throughout the city of jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”

in the script used during old testament times it was either in x shape or a + shape.

Disillusioned JW

Terry I now think you are on to something in regards to the cross shaped "mark" referred to in Ezekiel, but not exactly the way that you think. That is because a moment ago I heard mention of the mark of the book of Ezekiel in the DVD of the documentary film called "The Lost Tomb of Jesus", a "A Simcha Jacobovici Film". Such a mark was found as part of the inscription on one of the ossuaries discovered by Simcha (and Simcha thinks some of them belongs to the Jesus family and ones in nearby tomb to very early followers of Jesus). The show mentions the mark (the Tav) it is the last letter of the Aramaic alphabet and that though it is cross shaped it does not signify a crucifixion type cross. Instead since it is of the last letter of the Aramaic alphabet it has an apocalyptic symbolic meaning of "final" and "end", "sealed up", finished, and OK. Notice the show (with James Tabr making the comments about the mark) said "sealed up". In my prior post in this topic thread I mentioned Revelation saying the "seal of God" and it being used of those who Revelation says would be protected by God. The show ties it in with the book of Revelation calling Jesus the "The First and the Last" ("Alpha and Omega" in Greek, which is "The Aleph and the Tav" in Aramaic)! That is mentioned at about the one hour mark of the show. The show is amazing! I checked out the DVD from the library three days ago but I didn't begin watching it til tonight.

The figurative "pieces of a puzzle" are "coming together" for me.

More and more I am seeing that so many things (and even statement made by various people) are connected together, in ways that most people don't usually notice. For example, I had no idea that this show would mention the mark in the sense of being sealed instead of being a crucifixion cross, yet two days ago you mentioned the mark as a crucifixion cross and I contrasted it with "the seal of God"! I think that is more than mere coincidence, I think it is many of many evidences of interconnections of the universe! I'm starting to think that minds are interconnected in a metaphysical quantum physics kind of way and that parts of the universe are also interconnected (in ways we don't see), perhaps by means of the"fabric of space-time".

Maybe in some sense I am starting to become a mystic (maybe even 'spiritual' in sense, but in a non-supernaturalistic way)!

11

is it pImo ?

by stan livedeath in

is it peemee or pie mie ?.

peemo or piemo ?.

Disillusioned JW

There is a way to edit the title prior to the time running out to edit it and the initial post.

46

Books I read when I deprogrammed

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

blondie suggested someone start a thread with a list of books that are valuable to read when exiting the jws.. i will start.. i left the jws way back in the early 70s and didn't actually deprogram until into the 80s.. one of the first books i read was "the orwellian world of jehovah's witnesses" by gary and heather botting.

canadian exjws from calagary.

an excellent book and one that still resonates with young people today.

Disillusioned JW

flipper I notice that you said you read the book called Freedom of Mind - Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs. Did you use that book to help you convince your loved ones to leave the WT/JW religion? If so, how effective was it for that purpose?

63

Is Bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding the prelude to the great tribulation?

by Disillusioned JW in

is bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding a prelude to the great tribulation?.

full disclosure: i still don't believe in the bible's claims about the existence of the supernatural, even of jehovah god (i'm an atheist and a scientific/philosophical naturalist), but i am asking this question because recent events are starting to seem (to me) to fit well the description of some prophecies in the bible.

consider the following.. several hours ago (on 11-26-2021) as i was about to enter a local fred meyer store of my city (in suburb or small city in the metro area of a large city) a person i know told me that a moment earlier a person left the store in a hurry with a cart load up with unpaid merchandise (i think i was told it was groceries but i don't remember that for sure).

Disillusioned JW

Two posts I made today (which I think were in this topic thread) about what the book of Revelation says will happen in the Great Tribulation, and that thus the GT is not in progress, seem to have been deleted. I wonder why. [I have an idea, but I am still very surprised.] The removal seems very unjust to me. People on this site write about and complain about right-wing conservative posts being removed from mainstream media/blog sites, but what about certain kinds of Bible based exposition posts or certain kinds of liberal posts being removed from right-wing conservative sites (even those run by atheists)?

Fortunately I have a copy of my two posts, thus I can post them on a different site if I wish or include in a book I might write about the Bible's teachings (perhaps in a pro-atheistic book disproving the Bible).

11

is it pImo ?

by stan livedeath in

is it peemee or pie mie ?.

peemo or piemo ?.

Disillusioned JW

In at least one often used computer font a capital letter 'I' (pronounced "eye') and a small case letter 'l' (pronounced 'el') look identical. I strongly dislike that type of font for that reason. I want a capital letter 'I" to have a top horizontal bar and a bottom horizontal bar to distinguish it from a lower case letter 'l'. Think of the word "ill" (meaning "sick") looking like "Ill" if used as the first word of a sentence (or of a title) or in all capitals. When people miss type in such a font (a font which doesn't make the distinction) and later copy and paste into a program using a different font (such as a typewriter style font) the error becomes apparent to those with attention to detail. I've seen the error on some documents filed with the Security and Exchange Commission (SEC) and in many places in at least one science book.

22

Saving "mark" on forehead: A CROSS?

by Terry in

ezekiel 9:4.

“go throughout the city of jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”

in the script used during old testament times it was either in x shape or a + shape.

Disillusioned JW

In contrast to receiving a mark for survival Revelation 9:4 says those who "... have the seal of God on their foreheads" receive no harm from the locusts which have the authority of scorpions. Revelation 22:3-4 says there will be those who will see the face of God (or is it that of the Lamb, or is it of both) and that such ones will have the name of God (or is it that of the Lamb, or is it of both) on their foreheads in the holy city (New Jerusalem) after the 1,000 years of rule (during the abyss of Satan) have ended. Revelation 21:27 (1984 NWT) indicates that those with the holy name on their foreheads are those who names are "written in the Lamb's scroll of life" and Revelation 22:5 (1984 NWT) says "they will rule as kings forever and ever." In contrast Revelation 13:15-18, 16:2, and and 19:20 says that the ones who worship the beast and the image of the beast will have the mark of the beast on their forehead or on their right hand.

35

Refuting the Alleged Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection

by truth_b_known in

in the past few months there have been a few debates on this site over alleged evidence of the resurrection of jesus.

this can be a hot topic as most would agree that without the resurrection of jesus there would be no christianity.

i am not so sure of that, but i am more sure that dr. gary habermas' minimal facts approach to the resurrection has no evidentiary basis.. here is a 22 minute video on the topic.

Disillusioned JW

Yesterday I checked out from the library two books by Jacobovici, namely The Jesus Discovery and The Lost Gospel. The Lost Gospel makes some wild claims and yet to some extent they seem plausible.

4

2001translation.com Website?

by lynnmelo in

jw
friends

hi, again, folks (i've posted 2 times today).

my sister (who is also studying with the jw's) found this website.

it says it isn't affiliated with any specific religion, but she said that many of the explanations are right in line with the jw's take on things.

Disillusioned JW

Regarding Romans 10:13 see also https://2001translation.org/about/divine-name-unreliable where it says it thinks that Joel 2:32 (which is quoted in Romans 10:13) in Hebrew originally said "Then, all that call on the name of the Lord will be saved, said Jehovah", instead of saying "Jehovah (יהוה)" in place of Lord. The reasons it gives for such are impressive.